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User blog:FanofRPGs/Cthulhu Mythos Blog
Written by FanofRPGs. This is my comprehensive blog on the cosmology to help give context for the cosmology and gods and debunk misconceptions about the mythos. My blog does not use Vs Battles Wiki's tiering system, but I have made sure to be as neutral on the matter of Dimensional Tiering as possible and seek truth and objectivity over bias or preference. The Cthulhu Mythos and the Dream Cycle are parts of the greater Lovecraftian Mythos written by Howard Phillip Lovecraft from 1917 with Dagon to 1935 with The Haunter of the Dark. This shall be an analysis on the cosmology of the works of H.P Lovecraft and be a concise argument for why his Cthulhu Mythos should be ranked at the tier High 1-C to 1-A, and subsequently among the most powerful fictional universes alongside Umineko: When They Cry, The Dark Tower, and Discworld. The following stories are vital to understanding Lovecraft's Cosmology: *Celephaïs *Nyarlathotep *Ex Oblvione *Hypnos *The Call of Cthulhu *The Colour Out of Space *Fungi from Yuggoth *The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath *The Silver Key *The Hounds of Tindalos ‡ *The Whisperer in Darkness *The Dreams in the Witch House *Through the Gates of the Silver Key *The Haunter of the Dark ‡''The Hounds of Tindalos was not written by HP Lovecraft, but it is still canon'' Type Four Multiverse of the Mythos Now to begin, I will talk about the universes of the Cthulhu Mythos First off, what are the rules for a type 4 Multiverse? #it has to be an uncountably infinite in size structure. Now many works of fiction don’t make this sort of distinctions between the different types of infinite very good, but we can in many cases, based on the properties of the multiverse in question, state if will be “this large”. Example being, if a given multiverse contains each and every single possible permutation of an already infinite set, like every single possible variation of the arrangement of the matter in an infinite in size and matter universe. This is of course only a single example. Any multiverse with continuously changing variables in its universe would meet this requirement too. #As you have stated earlier, there can’t be anything that is not part of this structure and yet is a part of a given setting cosmology unless you transcend the mathematics supplied in a setting and are effectively beyond even a perceived true reality #The mathematics ( or some other representation of a logic based system, whatever you want to call it ) represents the “true” reality, of which the physical world is its representation. This one is rather “easy” as many of the settings use some sort of “higher reality”/”true reality” notions in their descriptions. #Each and every single one of this non self contradicting mathematical structures that can be conceived at all ( or whatever you want to call them ), has to be represented in said multiverse. This is the hardest one to prove. How would one prove such a thing… unless it is explicitly told to us in the face by a reliable source Universes are infinite: This implies that this is a Type 4 Multiverse, given fundamental concepts such as matter and gravitation don't simply just work differently due to constants, but don't exist in some universes, implying different fundamental laws of physics From Whisperer in Darkness, the universe is implicitly described as an “ingenuine infinity,” but still infinite; it is simply a lower infinity in the perspective of the “genuine infinity” Here he also reveals that the multiverse has infinite universes. What this means is that given each universe has fundamentally different physical concepts, such as matter and gravitation and energy, that this is a Type 4 Multiverse. Also, it talks about an “ultimate infinity” again, but let’s get to that later. And at the end, another statement about their being a multiverse And so at the bare minimum, the multiverse of the Cthulhu Mythos is a type 4 multiverse with infinite universes, each with varying laws of physics, forming an infinite chain. Higher Dimensions in the Mythos Spatial Dimensions What are dimensions according to Lovecraft? Well, it can be viewed from his descriptions in Through the Gates of the Silver Key (In fact, a healthy majority of statements on the nature of the greater cosmology is sourced from this story). And then shortly stated a few paragraphs down, this is talked of: And then again later: Now, one may take this to mean higher infinite mathematics, however, it makes sense that such description of dimensions actually deals with cross-sectional mathematics. Simply put, a higher dimension can be formed when an n-dimensional shape of some sort is put in a perpendicular to the cross section of any sort of shape by using mathematics described better on this site Simply put, these are not higher infinities. Higher dimensional beings rather would be capable of moving in directions and displacements nary capable of a three-dimensional mind comprehending. In fact, in Dreams in the Witchhouse, that is what dimensions are implied to be moreso than higher infinities which we are absolutely infinitesimal to. The student Gilman goes into an infamously cursed house and while dreaming (Which is a major gateway to the Outer Voids as I will explain later on) he experiences this: And later on in it's confirmed he thinks this abyss is a higher dimension: Also salient to the story, and relevant to the constant "teleporations" Gilman experiences in the story, is that the 4th Dimension doesn't simply obliterate the self and can be used to displace across 3-D distance in an instant and safely at that: So, I do not believe higher dimensions really represent higher dimensions. Sure, they are hard to comprehend and grasp to humans, but they serve mostly as a means of displacement and range advantage as described in the Mythos. I just don't think Lovecraft was writing them as higher layered realities, but additional axes of freedom which the mundane man cannot grasp due to his limited 3-D shape. The Nature of Time Now, as it was seen in The Whisperer of the Darkness, entities known as the “Hounds of Tindalos” exist in the Cthulhu Mythos? Who are these? They are from a story named “The Hounds of Tindalos” by Frank Belknap Long. So in effect, the going ons of that story are in fact canon to the mythos. In it, he has a description of time which Lovecraft would too use. I should note that Long gives time the moniker “The Fourth Dimension,” but as far as I am aware this is only stated in Hounds of Tindalos, and Lovecraft never makes the mistake of attributing time as the fourth dimension. So I will assume the description of it as the fourth dimension a fault on Long’s part and merely an analogical appellation, and not the same as the fourth dimension described in Lovecraft’s works. I digress, here is the description of time in Hounds of Tindalos: From this, I come to 3 conclusions: #Time functions fundamentally different in Cthulhu Mythos than in real life, and exists as a spatial dimensions #Time dimensions work completely different from spatial dimensions in the Mythos #Time dimensions in the Cthulhu Mythos are best described as Platonic planes of existence, where each moment in existence and time is really just an infinitesimal coordinate point to the 4th dimension. Each higher dimension represents an infinitely greater and more complex archetype of a given character or concept. 3-D space is infinitesimally small and simplistic to the infinitely more complex 4th dimension. Given this, it would be assumed that to be one with the dimension of time is to trivialize all of one’s spatial existence into a singular point, thus becoming an archetypal abstraction infinitely greater than the lower self at any given instant. Moreso: To reiterate; our universe at any given moment, is still an infinite vacuum, but every given planck instant of the universe is but one infinitesimal coordinate mapped in the fourth-dimension, and one who resides on the time dimension is a composite of an entire infinite “string of time” for the universe at once. In other words, it infinitely trivializes an infinite space into an infinitesimal facet. Given this, the entire space-time continuum as a whole would be infinite multiversal. A single universe also seems to use a fusion of the Many Worlds Interpretation cosmological metatheory and the platonic theory of forms. To give some more background, time in the Cthulhu Mythos can be “angular” or “curved,” which are analogies to how actual space can be curved or angular. Now this becomes important here: Time is further explained here to be a matter of perspective. Depending on a cut or cross-section of a “curve” or “angle.” The juxtaposition of the infinite dimensions of space and the dimension of time for a given universe makes it such that looking at any given angle or curve perceived from the time dimension actually reveals a causal divergence point. Alternate possible futures and past exists in all sorts of forms. For example, there is a timeline described where Carter fought Mongols in Australia in the 22nd century. Given space and time as planes are infinite in size, this creates effectively infinitely diverse causal variations and alternate timelines that can be seen by one’s frame of perception of a given curved or angular juxtaposition between space and time. To reiterate, this all means that the space-time continuum is infinite multiversal. However, there seems to be some extra time dimension permeating the entire multiverse itself too, as looking at the quote above, This implies that the juxtaposition of time and space can create alternating forms from other space-time continua too, not just from within the universe. This furthermore infinitely complexifies the multiverse, which is infinite in number. However, even that isn't the true infinity, for Lovecraft mentions a "Genuine" and "Ultimate" Infinity even beyond our space and time and all universes. So let's get to that. Gates in the Mythos The First Gate is beyond the dimension of time: Now, it does say that the ultimate gate transcends all universes, but that is sort of redundant, for it is revealed in Hypnos the First Gate does that already, if not more. This can be seen from Hypnos. Remember how in The Dreams in the Witchhouse, the man goes through twilight abysses beyond space and time, well in Hypnos the main character and his friend Hypnos decide to go on hallucinogenic adventures through theese realms beyond our universe by using drugs which help them control these plunges: And so they already are seeking a way which transcends our universe. And doing so, they break through seemingly several higher layers of reality: As they broke through each “well marked obstacle,” they had their semblance of reality and causality shattered and rendered trivial. This repeatedly happens to progressively higher levels. Each level is described as a viscous or cloudy vapour, and I propose that these are actual gates as I will show later. Going past these obstacles, they have long transcended time: Given all of this, I do not think it would be too controversial to deem these obstacles whose breakage leads to perceived transcendent realities to be progressively higher infinities. What happens next I feels solidifies this: They then, due to abstract winds, go through these “limitless vacua” which are described as all thought and entity, implying they are greater than even the past obstacles. Here they are described as witnessing new perceptions of infinity in a zone effectively amaterial and beyond matter. Given they are still shattering the barriers from the twilight abysses prior, they are witnessing these new perceptions of infinity, and that the vacua described as limitless, I take that as infinitely higher increasing “vacua,” and as each one gets passed, a higher level of infinity is reached in tradition of the lower dimensioned gulfs they passed breaking their conception of reality being shattered. And as seen from the excerpt, they eventually they reach a level to which the protagonist cannot past and when Hypnos goes past, he goes mad: Note the whining, the mention of the whining incomprehensible beings beyond common hearing which he reminisces. What does this sound similar to? and The realm they stopped at was the Ultimate Void where the Outer Gods like Nyarlathotep, Shub-Niggurath, the Ultimate Gods, Yog-Sothoth, and chiefly Azathoth reside. And furthermore, the effects of going through then sound familiar to the effects of going through the gate in Through the Gates of the Silver Key. Both cause impairing mental effects, bring them an existential surge of terror, and are described as illucid and misty. Given this, I think it would not be risky to assume these obstacles and vacua are higher gates. This infinitude of infinite gates can be further backed up by this quote show that there are multiple Gates: The transition from the dimensioned and measured gates and barriers to the outer void is noted in The Dreams of the Witchhouse: Lovecraft’s story, “The Book,” where a man finds a tome letting him do queer and alien rituals which show again the parallels between the abysses and vacua from Hypnos and Dreams in the Witchhouse and the Gates from the Silver Key and Through the Gates of the Silver Key. Here is a description of a formula found in this book: Do note that the passage of dreams through higher dimensions and realities requires the usage of "gateways" passed through the consumption of a ritual. Doing this ritual lets him see perceptiosn of higher spaces which he cannot fully grasp and time grows to be more and more of an illusion like how it did in Hypnos. The gateway moniker is still used here, further cementing the gates' connections with the going-ons in Hypnos. And lastly, from a short story written by H.P Lovecraft called “Ex Oblivione,” it can be seen that he has priorly connected the use of gates with drugs: Like in Hypnos, to access higher realms and gates, one has to use mystic drugs while in their dreams. The gate also leads to the narrator’s oblivion and assimilation back into reality, much like what Carter is described to have experienced in Through the Gates of the Silver Key: The only difference, however, is that the void is described as white which contradicts the numbing blackened existence of the outer void. However, this gate may be the first gate, as there are abnormal lights that emanate from the hexagonal pedestals in it: However, the gate in the Randolph Carter stories are described as large, while in this it’s described as a “little bronze gate.” However, this can be seen as metaphorical perceptual differences. Ex Oblivione’s protagonist holds different ideals and wishes from Carter and so the gate of dreams is different. Carter sought to rejuvenate his lost innocence and sense of wonder, while the protagonist of Ex Oblivione wanted a peaceful escape from his wilting and decaying life. The point is that the layers accessible via drugs are very similar to what is described as the gate in Ex Oblivione, and given there are infinite layers then compounded by progressively vacua beyond thought and entity afterwards and there are described to be a “limitless” number of them, that means there are infinite gates, to which going outside the ultimate gate leads to transcendance of all gates and vacua. Archetypes in the Mythos Now why do their perception of reality get torn apart for each seeming later? Well, it's because they are reaching higher archetypal existences, which is described as annihilating them: Again note the similar effects going through this gate has as with when the protagonist of Hypnos and Hypnos himself had as they passed those vaporous and viscous obstacles and vacua. This implies the annihilation and terror they felt, aside from them going to higher realities and infinities, was them becoming infinitely more complex abstract archetypal forms of themselves. Here is another statement on archetypes: Do note that it was only ‘Umr at-Tawil’s intervention which prevented Carter’s oblivion and fragmentation across his home universe when he passed the first gate. Anyways, passing the ultimate gate and becoming your ultimate archetypal self makes you transcend dimensionality, size, and exist in a realm beyond infinite layers of infinitely self-transcending realities, given how gates correlate with the barriers and vacua of Hypnos. And one's archetypal self is merely a matter of perspective of a cross-section, tilt, angle, or curve in the conscious plane, going back to the dimension quote mentioned earlier: Here is an example of this conscious plane in application: And this also goes all the way back to how time was curved and angled. The whole greater infinite dimensioned + time dimensioned cosmology is transfinite in possiblity as every specific perspective possible and impossible leads to all altering time-lines and realities across all dimensions, universes, vacua, and barriers. Lastly, here is another example of the use of the consciousness plane, and here it's shown to be capable of letting you reach the Ultimate Void: Beyond the Ultimate Gate Going back to an aforementioned quote from The Dreams in the Witchhouse, the Ultimate Void is described as being nary to any mathematical formalism possible: Note that this is merely the pathway to the ultimate void, the final stages when one only beholds the hints of the Outer Gods; this can be akin to the final vaporous barrier in Hypnos or the crossing of the Ultimate Gate in Through the Gates of the Silver Key. Due to Gilman being influenced under the hand of Nyarlathotep, that explaisn why he is not instantly obliterated or overwhelemed by the passage from this point. I admit this is blatantly stated to be from the perception of a mere human, but the man in question, Gilman, studies niche calculus and math: Gilman is stated to be doing Calculus D, which is akin to Vector Calculus, Riemann Equations, and the like. However, given he is into occult and more obscure sciences, it would not be too absurd for him to have heard and studied the works of Georg Cantor's set theory, a shunned and repudiated mathematical branch during his time which is right up his alley. This means he could possibly know of the concept of an absolute infinity (And we will get back to this eventually) and yet the outer void is so foreign that he deigns to justifying it even with the concepts of dimensionality or, if he possibly knows it, of higher infinities. In other words, the outer void may possibly be above cantorian cardinality. This is furthermore a possibility, as Randolph Carter, one to delve into obscurer and more cryptic mathematical and philosophical studies, percieved this for either his ultimate archetypal self or Yog Sothoth (Hard to tell): Again, possible evidence that this level is above any cantorian notion of size too, especially given the comparison to "crytpcial studies" which likely could include the works of Von Neumann and Cantor. The main inhabitant of the Ultimate Void are the Ultimate Gods: The Ultimate Gods Another statement about the Ultimate Void and the larval Ultimate Gods: Notice that they keep mentioning Nyarlathotep, who is Azathoth’s primal kin, his soul and messenger, and also a horrific abomination of nature: Nyarlathotep A description of Nyarlathotep’s role in the greater cosmology: Nyarlathotep is fully capable of entering this Ultimate Void and interacting with it: And seen in his titular story, he can bring whole groups to the Outer Void for the hell of it: However, he is a dweller of darkness and some of his avatars such as the Haunter of the Dark shun the light and seek its avoidance: Though this is likely just his avatars and the true form which can contact the Ultimate Void obviously does not have such a weakness Yog Sothoth Above almost all outer gods is Yog-Sothoth: He is without a doubt one of the largest beings in the entire mythos: Even the ultimate archetypes of beings are still an insignificant facet of Yog-Sothoth: And here is another statement on how all archetypes are infinitesimal aspects of Yog-Sothoth. Yog Sothoth transcends all mathematics and notions of any reality or fantasy. Given that higher and more total infinities are a realized concept in the Cthulhu Mythos, it won't be a stretch to believe this includes Cantorian mathematics. He exceeds nearly all others in the Mythos including ultimate archetypes of beings and the Outer Gods, which would make him 1-A in my system, for he is not actually the supreme being of the Cthulhu Mythos. That would go to the aforementioned Sultan of Darkness, Azathoth. Azathoth According to one of my personal favorites, and also his last published story, the chilling "Haunter of the Dark" declares that Azathoth is the "Lord of All Things:" And yet, such a name is merely an apellation, for his true name is too terrible to utter: In April 27, 1937, Lovecraft’s assorted letter 4.617 gives this family tree. See that Azathoth "predates" Yog-Sothoth and his progenitor? Well, Azzy of Vs Battles Wiki says this perfectly: However, there is one myth I must dispell. That Azathoth's awakening will destroy all of the cosmology for all of it is a dream. This is taken from an interpretation of Fungi from Yuggoth, but Fungi from Yuggoth is a poem with metaphor inherently riddled through it and the quote itself is vague for even Lovecraft standards. Does it mean Azathoth dreams of the reality he is subsiding in and is shamblingly asleep and babbling like a sedentary sultan, or is he literally dreaming up the whole reality? The first one is more in line with common descriptions of how he is. Furthermore, the notion that when he wakes up, reality is destroyed, is not from him, but a being written by Lord Dunsay called Mana-Yood-Sushai, the creator god of existence: And yet it's not even the master of all in its own cosmology: The notion of the world ending by Azathoth's awakening had nothing to do with Lovecraft's Azathoth, but Dunsay's Mana-Yood-Sushai: and later on: And none of this stuff was claimed for Azathoth, but a different character all together. And we don't know why Azathoth was lulled to sleep, rather we do not know based on Lovecraft's works. According to August Derleth, Azathoth was defeated by the combinded forces of the Outer Gods and forced to sleep. In fact, if what I hear is true, the notion that Azathoth + wake up = bye bye reality is actually from Demonbane. So if you really want pedobane do dictate the powers of Azathoth, go on with it. So Lovecraft gives us no real discernable information on Azathoth as to explain his slumber, and using Derleth's fanciful addendums to the Mythos adds characterization contradictory to his position. As such, while it wouldn't too ridiculous to assume Azathoth is above Yog Sothoth and other such ilk, there is no proof he is as ineffiably transcendant among his kin as compared to The Creator from Umineko or Gan from The Dark Tower. However... He still gives Lovecraft himself the spooks (joke): Wrapping up Loose Ends So a major relic in Lovecraft's last story was the Shining Trapozehedron, which is obviously an interdimensional sword that can destroy Azathoth /s. What it really is is a window to the cosmology of the Mythos: Here is a description of its appearance: And here is where is what's shown when Blake looks upon the stone: So yeah, the Shining Trapozehedron is a window into the cosmology. Which I find fitting for the relic shown in Lovecraft's last story. He would die soon afterwards of cancer, and could not write more on the Shining Trapozehedron, and the Haunter of the Dark (Nyarlathotep), and of the cosmology. However, the Shining Trapozehedron really is a fitting example of the cosmology of the Lovecraft Mythos. For upon the glinted shape of the gem one sees viewports into varieties of fancies and realities. Much like the cosmology houses infinite viewports and angles to witness the transfinitude of possibilities across all dimensionality, scope, and mathematics. This is all viewed from the outside, the ultimate void betond all aforementioned dimensionality, scope, or mathematical formalism. Beyond logic and rationality. Absolutely boundless and ineffible and yawningly incomprehensible. The "genuine" and "ultimate" infinity mentioned The Whisperer in Darkness. An infinity whose truths are so terrifying that the only hatchetman to execute the end of the madness of he who views it is Nyarlathotep, among Lovecraft's first mentioned abominations. For he is the messenger the Azathoth king of a cosmology existing as Yog-Sothoth, who represents the ultimate and genuine infinity. The notion of a genuine and ultimate infinity are not to be taken lightly: Absolute infinity is what the outer void, and by extension Yog Sothoth, are. The ultimate void, which is the genuine and ultimate infinite and can connect to Cantorian math in that conception, meaning it's beyond mathematical scope, dimensionality, reality, fantasy, dreams, time, and conception. One Last Thing I see the tier for Cthulhu and it really bothers me. I do not believe he is star level. Here is why. The supposed justification for Cthulhu is this quote: The supposition is that in this quote, the protagonist learned of the coming of Cthulhu which lead to the novae of the "great temporary stars of history." However, I would argue that these two are completely unrelated statements. Notice the literary pattern in the whole quote. For context, the protagonist is trying to be convinced by Akeley to go visit him under the pretenses that there is untold amounts of knowledge. This includes what is mentioned above. In each sentence he notes two different things he learned of. I will explain by using the other comparisons in this: * I do not know what the Magellanic Clouds have to do with Tao, because there is no justification. I have not read the story he is referring here, if there is one, but Tao is a reference to the hounds of Tindalos again: Tao is an allegory for the duality and wholeness of reality, another reference to the greater cosmology of existence represented in avatar form as the Shining Trapozehedron. You achieve the discovery of Tao the same way the characters of Hypnos, The Dreams in the Witchhouse, and through the Gates of the Silver Key; it has little to do with the Magellanic clouds I would reckon. * I admit the Doels are a creation of Frank Belknap Long like the Hounds of Tindalos, and they are mentioned in the same story: However, there is real no correlation as they first appeared in an earlier story called the Space Eaters. They both just exist from beyond space and time and Lovecraft is affectionately referencing them to acknowledge Frank Belknap Long's works. * There is absolutely no connection between Azathoth and Yig, not by family tree, not in reference to eachother. Not in theme, not in position, and not in story canon. The Curse of Yig is a localized story about some local demon god, and in the story there is no reference to the outer gods or outer cosmology, let alone the Blind Idiot God. So the three other things listed in the quote are ill-related, so why must one assume that Cthulhu and the flaring stars are connected? Parallelism is important for well written literature, and Lovecraft is among the best at literature. And being generous and assuming that the two are connected, does this necessarily mean Cthulhu himself is busting the stars? Why not assume that this is just due to some cosmic calendrical ritual? In fact, when there are references to stars in The Call of Cthulhu, first off it has to do with the arrangement of the stars and second off that's exactly what such cosmic event is implied: And looking through Lovecraft's other works, I see no reference to Cthulhu causing stars to flare forward. So in conclusion to this, there was no connection between Cthulhu's advent and the stars flaring forth due to no other thing learned in the list being connected and thus due to literary parallelism kicking in, and if there was a connection it is vague and to jump to "Well Cthuhlu destroyed the stars" is pretty fallacious and contradictory as there is no such reference in any of Lovecraft's literature. Conclusion To be simple, here is the hierarchy of the cosmology: *Earth *Solar System *Galaxy *Physical Space *Space-Time Continuum which houses 3-D space and angled and curved time *The twilight abysses beyond the universe crossed through the First Gate, which at it's lowest 4-D scale can allow one to jump across the universe *The various barriers in these twilight abysses, representing the various gates, higher realities, and higher spatial dimensions *The limitless vacua beyond dimensionality, representing the passage to the ultimate gate *The final barrier within this vacua, which is the threshhold to the Outer Void *The Outer Void, which is beyond all mathematics and cardinality And the roles of the big three outer gods: *Azathoth is the King of the Outer Void and progenitor of existence, but there is no proof that his slumber serves as a lynchpin to the cosmology as popular internet myths claim. He is just a blind idiot god kept asleep for inhuman reasons. *Yog Sothoth is the actual cosmology itself, and serves as the Absolute Infinite canvas of reality and "God" as described by Georg Cantor, hence why the Cthulhu Mythos was called "Yog-Sothery" and "Azathothery" *Nyarlathotep is the messenger of Azathoth and represents his mind and soul. Given if this is true, as told by Lovecraft, perhaps Azathoth legit is the maddening demon sultan kept asleep just to prevent his cosmic tyranny? That's just conjecture, but Nyarlathotep is the arm of the outer gods and is the most "sentient" of them Category:Blog posts